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Conversations With a Wounded Healer

Who’s a wounded healer? It’s any one of us who works in a caring profession and is bravely doing their own work, while helping others. My goal is to share the parallel journey we as healers walk along with our clients and how we attend to our own humanity while caring for others.

My podcast is about conversations and community building, what we can learn from each other, and how we can help heal each other. We’re cultivating a space where we celebrate vulnerability, authenticity and “showing up.”

It’s a place to meet people I think will inspire you, help you heal and grow – and who you can relate to at the same time.

I’m inspired by C.G. Jung’s “wounded healer” concept, where the healer’s own hurt that gives the measure of his own power to heal.

Another one of my heroes, Brené Brown, puts it best: “Mindfully practicing authenticity during our most soul-searching struggles is how we invite grace, joy and gratitude into our lives.”

Together, I hope this marriage of vulnerability and professionalism will inspire and entertain you...enjoy!


Aug 10, 2022

I do not like CBT. Don't worry; I won't break into a salty Dr. Seuss-esque rhyme deriding cognitive behavioral therapy (although I could). But then Charles Small, LCSW, would kindly call me and my objections to CBT in rather than out.

I know this because that's how he's handled my grumbling in the past. He's one of those rare souls who can debate without derision, urging folks (like me) to hit pause long enough to trust his professional experience, reconsider the reams of evidence, and assess their (my) personal resistance through a more transparent lens. And you know what? Sometimes* I get it wrong about CBT.  

Alright! Let's get ready to rumble! But not really. Our conversation isn't a CBT vs. NARM cage match. In fact (and I would only say this to you because we're friends), there are points along the healing trajectory where these two modalities intersect. "Where our actual locus of control is, for the most part, is in our behaviors,” says Charles.

This mindfulness component is just one example. Another is CBT's non-judgemental approach. "It's not that there's this moral right or wrong. Instead, if I'm gonna choose the sort of person I wanna be in the world, what do my behaviors have to look like?" 

*I still hate CBT, though.


Charles Small, LCSW, is a social worker providing therapy for adults at Cognitive Behavioral Associates of Chicago. Prior to private group practice, Charles worked with veterans of the US Armed Services at the Jesse Brown VA Medical Center and the Road Home Program at Rush, where he provided evidence-based psychotherapy for the treatment of PTSD, Military Sexual Trauma, and Moral Injury. Charles is also a lecturer at Crown Family School of Social Work, Policy, and Practice at the University of Chicago, offering courses on Social Work with Veterans and Evidence-based Therapies for treating PTSD.

For full show notes, resources, and links to connect with our guest, visit:


Conversations with a Wounded Healer is a proud member of @mhnrnetwork.

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